Would you want to answer that one? Can I ask you what your views are on RC Sproul and the Ligonier contingent? He sets a great example and I appreciate his ability to charitable in discussing beliefs that others dont believe or accept. * Okay, end of sermon. Thats why. Those who fell outside the box and had to be pushed away They are his laws; they are not independent in nature. You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer. I didnt say childish. Thank you for letting me know what you think Jesus meant. Fine- no one is calling him out. Quotes about calvinism I am not faulting anyone or saying that Calvinists are lazy. 2) Dee, all this proves is you are a weirdness magnet. Im a musician in a band the skill level I have now is directly proportional to how many times Ive absolutely made a total fool of myself in front of people. He is NOT against us, but thank God, He is for us!! He is noted for a broad view of what constitutes Protestant "orthodoxy." I am not saying that Calvinists are going to hell or anything radical like that. Deb and are are well aware of the criticism we are receiving from some non-Calvinists because we feature sermons by Wade Burleson. Here is where I part company with much of Christian ideology, and heres why: Earthquakes, tsunamis, category five tornadoes, decrepitude and death are all beyond our pay-grades to decide upon, much less get resolution from. Eventually I became a Christian during an episode of Star Trek while reading a LifeMagazine article about "The Groovy Christians of Rye, New York." And when I talk of Calvinism, Im not talking about the way he viewed the authority of the church. ). It is the place for me, but maybe not for you. An infant does not want, nor desire steak. Learn more or donate today at crossway.org/about . I will say they are much more composed personalities. I am not familiar with the guy in the video or the people behind that You Tube channel, nor have I investigated who they are and what they believe, so I may not be in agreement with all their views. The following are theologians, listed alphabetically, who are non-Calvinist in their soteriology. It is not love to push Calvin.. But those of us who are labeled as misconstrue-ers of Calvinism are simply pointing out the logical flaws in their arguments. In other words, there are plenty of people who are not part of this movement. Why did he care so much about what the Bible said? Im sure we will have our playful little jabs, and he doesnt mind dishing it. This is why I tend to fall back to the WCF. And I agree with this. Then I discovered I was not, and it was like a moment of deliverance from a mighty weight that had been pressing me down. Actually, Luther wrote more about election and predestination than did Calvin. I admit, I tend to just let people rant any way they want to and hold them (so to speak) when they are done. Lydia's Corner:Ezra 3:1-4:231 Corinthians 2:6-3:4Psalm 28:1-9Proverbs 20:24-25, Thank you so much for this posting. And I would especially like to thank Jeff S for demonstrating how to explain and defend in great charity Calvinism and why he holds to those beliefs. Calvinism Jesse Morrell. In some respects we all do that. God is NOT in control. God would never have deliberately planned that my Calvinist pastor-father would sexually abuse me for years and years. God ordains everything and man has a degree of free will how can these both be true? What bothers me is that your leaders disregard my objections, calling me barely a Christian or saying that Olson is not a Christian.. Could the person have simply avoided it and gone to someplace else without even making the comment? However, they are limited, just as we are. So many have been through one form of abuse or another and have needs that we should allow for, beyond social norms. Both my husband and I knew the difference at this point and began to look for another church in Dallas which we found in Bent Tree Bible Church. The larger discussion is one I think those who wish to explore this issue would find interesting, but I simply cannot quote all of it (and I hope its OK to quote as much as I do here- if this will create legal issues for the blog, please strike the comment). I might also note that TWC is not the same as Calvinism. And that I need to keep praying that God will teach me to love them the way he wants me to. I hadnt thought of it that way. It affirms that God is sovereign., Pg 79: And its a big enough issue that RC Sproul re-badges it to Radical Corruption. Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and Lutheranism all come to mind off the top of my head. This is simply human and not related to social faux pas. Benjamin Keach (1640-1704) Keach served as the pastor of Horse-lie-down church in Southwark, England. Lewis, Alan Walker, Gregory Boyd, Denny Weaver, J. Burkholder, John Roth, Mark Thiessen, George McDonald, G.K. Chesterton, #5 JonC, Feb 9, 2018 Like x 1 JonC Moderator Moderator Joined: Aug 28, 2001 Messages: 29,185 That's pretty darn impressive, and many many . Even though I rejected Calvinism, I was not (nor have I ever been) a universalist, I still believed in Gods sovereignty, etc. I am much more hyper in my comments than they are. Addressing what many evangelical Christians are concerned about todayso-called "new Calvinism," a movement embraced by a generation labeled as "young, restless, Reformed" Against Calvinism is the only book of its kind to offer objections from a non-Calvinist perspective to the current wave of Calvinism among Christian youth. Does there need to be a correction? ), but if taken to its logical outcomes, yes, at the end of the day, Cal really does teach X. It is a goal of this blog to extendthe dialog to include Calvinists and even find areas with which we can agree. But even more enigmatic is how man, being inexorably morally corrupt compared to God is never in a position to even KNOW the difference, since KNOWING good from evil implies that man can actually, of himself, wholly apart from God, freely embrace by his WILL the TRUTH of what is good, or reject it. . This might be where Romans 8:28 comes in, or the story of Joseph in the Old Testament. Youd be welcome at the table in my wigwam too Jeff. My experience has been that someone who adheres to Calvinism always shows up on a blog to defend it/him when they happen upon someone they feel is misrepresenting him/it. Joel B. I recently found the article online hereand it made me cry as I thought about the journey of my life since that night. Cheers you on. I was open. However, he presentedOlson as a man of good will. They tend to carry on for a long time about it and end up calling people heretic (Ive seen this done on both sides of the debate though ) as the conversation ensues. A person who has been abused should get A LOT of leeway in airing their feelings, because for a time (maybe a LONG time), the value of their free expression is more important than trying to protect a viewpoint. http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/reformed-theology/arminianism/calvinism-vs-arminianism-comparison-chart/, http://www.pbs.org/thisemotionallife/topic/happiness/helping-others, http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/2013/09/dont-mess-with-texas-baptists_2.html, http://www.stopbaptistpredators.org/ravagedfaith.html, In reply to forgiven-to-be-forgiving . You should see some of the other ixtian blogs. Thats not counting all the wives of elders, deacons, and Christian men in general. A must-read article from Christa Browns blog: http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/2013/09/dont-mess-with-texas-baptists_2.html, Im sorry that I was not clear. Concerning double predestination: If by it you mean that God makes people sin so that he can judge them and send them to hell no, I dont think the Bible says that. I liked that. Per PSA, I am pretty sure that that is the official stance of the Lutheran end of thingsbut I really shouldnt be talking about theories of the atonement because I havent studied them worth a hoot. We can also agree that God is the author of evil doctrine is evil. Kentucky. CALVIN! So if you disagree with me, you must be doomed to hell as a heretic, since you contradict what God has put in my mind to say.. I do believe that some brands have harmful elements that bring extra despair as if every day life doesnt bring enough. I would really like to understand this assertion you made. We know that some of you disagree with us. Oy. I agree with that perspective as well. Bad theology dishonors God and hurts people. Those wishes are not uncommon. I think the way to achieve this is to leave Calvin/theology out entirely and instead actively love/listen/show compassion. They want pure milk easy to digest, soothing, warms their tummy, meets their needs, gives comfort, nourishes them and helps them grow. Since so many Calvinists believe everything in this life is decreed, it would mean that God decreed you to write/create this blog from before the foundations of the world, so how can they object to you doing so? As far as the WCF- sure it isnt exactly what Calvin taught. The list 21st-century Calvinist and Reformed theologians includes Gary North (Christian Reconstructionist), Stephen Tong, D. A. Carson, John F. MacArthur and R. C. Sproul. Calvinism did not start with John Calvin. Some of the things he did/wrote/said kind of raise alarms, if Im honest the whole Servetus Thing, for instance, doesnt make anybody look good however you spin it. Pg 75 Something like that. people who call themselves Calvinist have never really read Calvin. Grew up in Arlington.Christian (immigrant) family. If you read it,you will most likely have a heart attack. However, when a woman has been abused for years by the men in her life, its going to be natural that she lashes out at men and not feel safe around them. Does this sound like a CULT(TM) to you? . I dont know. This is what has been preached to many people over and over. whats so complicated about that? We do better together than we do on our own. Hunt, Finney, Hyles, and Billy Graham would number in the non (anti)-calvinists that I personally have less respect for. And God obviously held back from rescuing me for reasons that I do not yet understand. I recently engaged the discussion on Denny Burks website regarding the PC(USA) rejecting the song In Christ Alone because of the line The wrath of God was satisfied. Just happy to be able to trust that God really is good again. This way of thinking goes against what Calvin said about freewill, the Westminster Confession of Faith says about freewill, and what every Calvinist Ive ever met says about freewill. Im talking about TULIP. Churches that sever the root of truth may seem to flourish for a season, but they will wither soon, or turn into something besides a Christian church. But maybe there is just too much pain and hurt for that to be possible. Regarding the idea of God controlling every molecule, Sproul (and the Westminster Confession of Faith) asserts that God is in control of everything, but never in such a way to do violence to the will of man or make God responsible for evil. I will not monopolize the conversation..I apologize for my run on posts. And what is an ocean but a multitude of single drops? So how does it work that God is in control of every molecule without circumventing the free will of man? I am not the smartest person in the world and I know that what seems logical to me can, in fact, be wrong . Jeff, whether it was my misperceptions or real perceptions of the doctrine that you hold dear to your heart, someone trying to correct my faulty ideas of Calvinism isnt going to benefit me whatsoever if I am at the emotional/spiritual end of my rope. NEVER allow them an unchallenged presumption. All are welcome to participate. Calvin is a little deep to get through, not to mention that the language structure is about 500 years old and not written in English. 9. Who did he think he was? I witnessed a weird detachment with this thinking, and people almost having to downplay love or relationship with others.. Dee, your post brought back child hood memories of Boston. But the rest of the bad stuff? As leader of the Anti-Revolutionary Party in the Netherlands he served as Prime Minister of his country from 1901 to 1905. That is, the non-Calvinist can say whatever he or she wants and the Calvinist just has to take it. Why the pessimism? Instead of debating, try to learn from the other person. "Eastview Christian Church pastor, Mike Baker, resigns after son, Caleb Baker, is fired from Central Christian Church for adultery" Why? Arminianism answers some of questions for me, not all of them. I pretty much agree with everything JeffB says here. And heres something I realized: I HATE the word Calvinist. I too have read Olson s book as well and appreciate his gentle spirit. However, their first names do arouse my suspicions. In his opening chapter, he discussed an incident (this has happened more than once) in which a Baylor student, who had attended the church of a well known northern Calvinist, informed Olson that Olson was not a Christian. And thus, we are left with the only real proof that anyone has been given the truth: by agreeing with THEM. That article Early Jesus Freak Movement Hollywood Free Paper country As Sixties(TM) as Rowan & Martins Laugh-In and then some. This, of course, is totally irrelevant. This item can do it all and do it all the better than the rest. As I was leaving Dallas, a man I did not know well approached me in church and said he wanted to correct something I had said. I just ordered the book! Im not saying I agree with everything in the WCF, but its a really large hurdle to overcome to show that something it directly states is misrepresentative of Reformed thology/Calvinism without a mountain of evidence to support it. My hubby got his first spiritual stirrings while watching a live performance of, Jesus Christ Superstar. Rather, it is a doctrine that expresses classical Jewish orthodoxy, Muslim orthodoxy, and Christian orthodoxy with respect to the nature of God. I think of it as humility and respecting my limitations, but I understand the line between humility and doublethink is quite thin. Im not sure if Lloyd Legalist is a Calvinista, but they might be related: https://twitter.com/LloydLegalist/status/374295516462739456. And it seems the Neo-Cals operate the opposite way: they view everyone else from a Calvinist lens and themselves through an Arminian one. He does not back down on what he believes, yet responds to such denunciations with a gentle manner. And so, I also agree with Nick on this: To me, being fed pat answers is more analogous to being fed sawdust because fibre is good for you.. They are letting someone else handle driving. Wade is one of the most loving pastors that we have ever had the joy to meet. (though in truth, I probably still get to read most of your comments from my lurking place, even though I rarely get to comment anymore).
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